typographical errors corrected by Dr Webb; recipients name anonymized and Dr. Webb contact-data omitted by the webmaster.

From: Richard Webb
To: E. S. anonymized
Cc: Marc Fasnacht
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 11:21 AM
Subject: Millikan’s Book, Chapters on Cosmic Ray Origins, Extracts

Dear E. S.,
     I have obtained Millikan’s book on Electrons,Protons Photons Neutrons Mesotrons and Cosmic Rays, published in 1946, immediately after the atomic bombings of Japan. I am attaching extracts from Millikan’s book – from his chapters about the Origin of Cosmic Ray. But before I discuss it, I recommend that you fetch the book from your library are browse through it. He has a chapter on nuclear energy, and asserts his opinion that nuclear energy ought not be used for an energy source – that solar energy ought to be used. He calls that “cheap atomic energy.” He also has a section on “The Control of Atomic Bombs,” and urges that all atomic bombs be abolished and no more made, and that an international organization be established for inspecting countries, to ensure no making of atomic bombs.
If you would like that section, I would send it to you.
     Now about the Cosmic Ray Origin.
     I have studied the book Fundamentals of Modern Physics, by Richtmyer and Kennard, and learned the theory and experimental measurements for the energy of virtually all of the cosmic ray particles – average energy of about 6 BeV (6 GeV), falling off rapidly so that hardly any particles beyond 20 BeV, and that virtually all are above 0.5 BeV, about. Before I knew about Millikan’s book, I thought that it is interesting that the energy of the cosmic rays is of the same magnitude as the rest mass of hydrogen nuclei, carbon nuclei, &c. – that is, the rest mass of the low atomic number atoms, which make up most of the material on the Earth. The thought arose in my mind that perhaps the origin of the cosmic rays is the release of the rest mass energy caused by some agent – an agent among the kind that I am worrying about being created by LHC (and Rhic, &c.) machines when taking them up to greater and greater energies.
     The sections of Richtmyer and Kennard treating of the origin of cosmic rays was less than satisfying – being lots of theory about magnetic fields of the cosmos and remnants of super novas.
     Well, then I discovered Millikan’s chapters on Cosmic Ray origins, and he proposed that the origin is the obvious, the annihilation of the rest mass of atoms of the cosmic dust. His reason and experimental supports that he presents is reasonable. So, I conclude that the catastrophe that I am worrying about has its possibility presented to us by the fact of the cosmic rays – that annihilation is going on in the outer space about us, by some agent., perhaps due to the low extremely low temperature of the dust. I think that ought to be assumed, to be prudent. It means that our Earthly atoms are susceptible of undergoing annihilation, given some agent to trigger it. Consider, as Millikan considered, the release of rest mass energy in a nuclear fusion reaction. It is fortunate that the in the process of the fusion of two Earthly atoms, the release of the rest mass stops at about 0.25%. The agent for that reaction is simply the two nuclei approaching each other. But could another agent, or strange neutron, be produced by the LHC collisions which would enter an Earthly atomic nuclei and trigger the release of rest mass energy, and without the release process stopping at 0.25%, but just keep going?
     So, I have examined Richtmyer and Kennard, and Leighton, and a book on Cosmic Rays by Gaisser that is cited by NASA, and none of them address’s Millikan’s hypothesis and his analysis in support of it! I think Millikan was shunned by the U.S. Government, and the U.S. Government-supported physicists, like Fermi, Richtmyer, Bethe, Weiskopf, &c. For Millikan wrote that burning up Uranium for fuel energy is morally wrong, and that the making of atomic bombs is morally wrong. It could be that Fermi made his theory of the origin of cosmic ray energies in reaction to Millikan, to give the Government a scientific article to divert attention from Millikan’s ideas. I have checked Wikipedia for their write up on Millikan, and it has two paragraphs alleging dishonest acts of Millikan, so as to destroy his credibility and name.
     Yes, it might be that cosmic charged particles however created, could bounce off moving magnetic fields (star materials in motion), and become accelerated, and thereby achieve such energies as the Auger and Fly’s Eye associates and CERN’s LHC safety assessment group claim exists (though I cannot rely on such claims). But so what? Even if some cosmic ray particles hit the Earth at 1017 eV or more, amounting to an extremely tiny faction (about 0.000000000001) of the cosmic ray particles that come into the Earth at .5 to 20 BeV (about 3 /sq.cm/sec), that would not prove that the LHC could not create a catastrophic radical neutralon that would trigger a chain reaction release of rest mass energy of our Earthly atoms; for the rest mass of atomic nuclei is the obvious prime possibility for the origin of the cosmic rays, since their respective energy magnitudes are the same! And so, the cosmic rays prove the possibility of our Earthly atoms can be annihilated. Whatever is the agent for the annihilation of the atoms in the outer space that make the cosmic rays, we cannot assume that it is an exclusive agent. We must assume that other agents might be created. I doubt whether any other planet in the universe, if there are other planets, had suffered hydrogen bombs like those invented by Fermi and his colleagues. So, man can make, and has made, strange (unnatural) things.
     The foregoing is my tentative conclusion. I want to study Fermi’s two articles – the ones that I hope you can obtain for me. Leighton’s gives an outline of Fermi’s theory. (It is interesting that Leighton treats Fermi’s theory, but suppresses Millikan’s theory.)
     I have read a summary of the NASA and a CalTech physicist papers on cosmic ray origins. These say that the cosmic rays are the results of super nova discharges, which then bounce around magnetic fields in space to become randomized. Well, that is a lot of theory. By this theory we are to believe that the result of all that process is that the energy happens to be exactly the rest mass energies of the low atomic number atoms. I think such theory of the origin of the cosmic rays is not reliable for judging the “safety” of the LHC, and other high energy physics machines.
     I would you like to have your judgment of the foregoing analysis, or before that a discussion or conference about it.
Sincerely yours,
Dick
Richard E. Webb

Download pdf-document: Millikan’s Book, Chapter 16 on Nuclear Energy and Atomic Bombs (scanned and anotated by Dr. Richard Webb)

2010-05-11 | achtphasen | 16:29:56 | Email | 5 comments




 

Comment from: Eric Penrose [Member] Email
Dr Webb
I found this from wikipedia on 'cosmic rays' concerning direct detection of primary cosmic rays from space. This looks to me like it is now been shown that cosmic rays are generally composed of nuclei:

'Detection by particle track-etch technique

Cosmic rays can also be detected directly when they pass through particle detectors flown aboard satellites or in high altitude balloons.'
..
'Wherever a bare cosmic ray nucleus passes through the detector*, the nuclear charge causes chemical bond breaking in the plastic. The slower the particle, the more extensive is the bond-breaking along the path; and the higher the charge [the higher the Z], the more extensive is the bond-breaking along the path. The caustic sodium hydroxide dissolves at a faster rate along the path of the damage, but thereafter dissolves at the slower base-rate along the surface of the minute hole that was drilled. The net result is a conical shaped pit in the plastic; typically with two pits per sheet [one originating from each side of the plastic]. The etch pits can be measured under a high power microscope [typically 1600X oil-immersion], and the etch rate plotted as a function of the depth in the stack of plastic. At the top of the stack, the ionization damage is less due to the higher speed. As the speed decreases due to deceleration in the stack, the ionization damage increases along the path. This generates a unique curve for each atomic nucleus of Z from 1 to 92, allowing identification of both the charge and energy [speed] of the particle that traverses the stack. This technique has been used with great success for detecting not only cosmic rays, but fission product nuclei for neutron detectors.'

* R.L. Fleischer, P.B. Price, R.M. Walker (1975). Nuclear tracks in solids: Principles and applications. University of California Press.

That to me indicates against this hypothesis, but if this isn't conclusive to you, I also found from the internet the following refs or quotes:

I presume you have seen or know of-
Robert A. Millikan, The Autobiography of Robert A. Millikan (New York: Prentice-Hall: 1950)

Also-
Michelangelo De Maria and A. Russo, "Cosmic Ray Romancing: The Discovery of the Latitude Effect and the Compton-Millikan Controversy",
Historical Studies in the Physical and Biological Sciences 19 (1989): 211-266

This is from an article on Arthur Compton, who as you would know disputed with Millikan at the time on this issue, mainly concerning Compton's cosmic ray research:

"other investigators sent up smaller, unmanned balloons, showing
that the latitude effect [20% supposed magn field induced deviation at poles from CR flux away from poles], far from decreasing in the upper atmosphere, actually increased by more than 90%, the scientific community moved decisively to the Compton side"
fr 'Arthur Holly Compton: the Adventures of a Citizen Scientist'
by John Compton. Vol6 No.1 Marc 2010 . 'Perspectives on Science and the Christian Faith'

Arthur H. Compton, “Cosmic Rays as Electrical Particles”
Physical Review 50 (December 15, 1936).

But to me, the more recent space based data is the more conclusive.

Eric
PermalinkPermalink 2010-05-14 | 01:08
Comment from: achtphasen [Member] Email
Thank you, Eric, for entering discussion of this might be high-relevant topic.

Very interesting is, that in the german wikipedia ( http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millikan-Versuch ) there is no correlation at all mentioned between Millikan and Cosmic Rays, whereas in the english one ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Andrews_Millikan ) Millikan is at least honoured to be the name-giver of Cosmic Rays:

At Caltech most of his scientific research focused on the study of "cosmic rays" (a term which he coined). In the 1930s he entered into a debate with Arthur Compton over whether cosmic rays were composed of high-energy photons (Millikan's view) or charged particles (Compton's view). Millikan thought his cosmic ray photons were the "birth cries" of new atoms continually being created by God to counteract entropy and prevent the heat death of the universe. Compton would eventually be proven right by the observation that cosmic rays are deflected by the Earth's magnetic field (and so must be charged particles).


As far as i understand Dr. Webb's intention, this Compton-Millikan dispute wether Cosmic-Rays would be 'photons' or 'particles' is misleading the discussion away from the fact, that Millikan's researches on Cosmic Rays made (until today) clear:
that the origin of cosmic rays is unknown, but should be interpreted as a warning (and not as a security-argument) because there could be 'an agent' making normal-baryonic matter annihilate and radiate
- this interpretation follows the evidence, that 99.999% of detected cosmic-ray's are of relative low-energies which perfectly fit with E=mc2 describing annihilizationing of ordinary carbon ... the rest (0.0001%) of cosmic rays hitting Earth are said to be as high-energetic to be comparable with LHC collision-energies.

Question is, how relieable such informations are.


As far as i learned on this topic from Richard Webb, the question is not, if cosmic ray particles would be 'photons' or 'electrons' or 'protons' ... the main assumption is, that those particles would - following Dr. Webb's interpretation on Millikan and temporanean cosmic-ray-data - come to existance as result of annihilation of exactly those atom-masses, of which our baryonic matter exists and that there could be an today unknown 'agent' annihilating baryonic matter and dispersing the energy of it's rest-mass in those rays, of which only a very small amount is furtehr accelerated after their production by contacting wide electro-magnetic fields in outer space (the latter following Fermi et al.).

In my eyes, this is a topic of uttermost interest to become discussed, as all 'security'-argumentation CERN states to neglect all worries of their smashing Quarks with the highest possible energies into one-another are based on making analogies with cosmic rays hitting celestial bodies.

Not only neglecting,
that cosmic rays hitting celestial bodies create 'exotic-particles' (as eventually micro-black-holes, 'strangelets (stange quark hyper nuclei), strange quark containing di-baryons, SUSY (SuperSymetric)-particles, maybe aggressive 'magnetic-mpnopoles (which should exist, as i learned, if 'big-bang'-theories might be describing nature correctly) but mainly all those possible, but never discussed further eventually dangerous 'exotic-particles' nobody is talking about, because they might never have been thought of) which always have velocities near the speed of light and thus, if ultrasmall (as micro-black-holes), always pass through Earth' matter in ultra-short time leaving Earth and the solar system immediatly, or, in the case of larger collision-products (as strange-quark-hyper-nuclei), immediatly suffer further hard collisions (collisions with relativistical velocities) and thus get destbilized immediatly beeing therefore disabled to induce matter-transforming (or nihilating) chain-reactions
, but mentioning cosmic ray analogies as a security-argument, wheras the origin of cosmic rays (following the thesis in Dr. Webbs publication here, must be considered as a warning, that there indeed could be such a thing as an agent provoking baryonic matter to decay into radiation, which to create as a unreflected side-effect in collider-experimentationing could lead to chain reaction annihilating Earth's matter.

The fall-out of 'exotic-particles' produced by TeV-scaled collider collision-experimentationing as at RHIC and LHC consist anyhow of (eventually stable remaining) particles, which at least concerning velocities and therefore concerning stability and dangerousity are not to compare with the products resulting of cosmic-rays hitting on celestial-bodies without showing any trace of danger.

If i am understanding right, what Dr. Webb is bringing into discussion, than it is, that the existance of Cosmic Rays must be considered as a warning, that there (in outer space) are events of matter-nihilization which are creating those rays.

Aside of above again given explication of the main difference between collisions of cosmic-ray-'particles' with particles of celestial bodies (which should occure in natures safe mode since the 'beginning' of this universe) and those collisions of particles (heavy-ions!!!) in colliders, where the collisions are realized by creating two beams of opposing directions, it has to be called just another fraud of the experimentators, to rely all risk-neglectioning argumentations onto analogies with cosmic-ray induced collisions, without any proven knowledge but some thesis where those cosmic-rays really are originating from.

If i understand Dr. Webbs intention right, than he explains, that the mere existence of Cosmic Rays must be considered as a warning and not as a proof of risklesslyness.

Further the chance of creationing of N-particle-systems of collision-products (with absolutly non-calculated subsequent events (including never thought of chain-ractions) has to be considered as 10^28 much higher as in natures safe colliding mode, as the collision-density (luminosity) in the colliding realms of the LHC are 10^28 higher, than occuring by nature.

Sorry for right above again given statement of one of my own worries.

I strongly encourage Dr. Webb to clarify towards the audience of this blog, why he considers Millikan's thoughts on Cosmic Rays noteworthy.

If ever possible, it is helpfull to use simple words, as the main part of the readers of this website are native german speaking. Topic is difficult enough. Please excuse webmasters broken english.
PermalinkPermalink 2010-05-14 | 13:05
Comment from: Eric Penrose [Member] Email
Dr Webb, Marc

Though I read Dr Webb's blog, I see now that I could have been filling in Dr Webb's argument with what I found from internet, where Millikan argued in 30's that the photon cosmic rays strke the earth atmosphere. It may be that by the time of the book Dr Webb refers to, the view had changed to photon cosmic rays that annihilate cosmic dust in space, therefore subsequent products from this would appear as nuclei cosmic rays when striking the upper atmosphere.

In my understanding annhilation between matter nuclei cannot occur, so I fail to see the potential for this in LHC collision (as opposed to Tevatron proton antiproton collision)
Eric
PermalinkPermalink 2010-05-14 | 20:13
Comment from: Eric Penrose [Member] Email
Mr. Penrose,
About message sent to others and posted on a world internet, you seem to discredit my analysis of the LHC hazards that I have offered Marc Fasnacht.
I have never asserted to anyone any detail of Millikan's atom annihilation hypothesis, such as the cosmic rays consist of photons, if that is what you imply. You seem to assert that because of a Wikipedia paragraph about alleged detection of heavy ions among the cosmic rays by etching of tracks of plastic material, that Millikan's hypothesis has been completely discredited or disproved, and so also what you imply as my contentions the danger of the LHC have been disproved. Well, I think that you don't know my analysis. I attach an email that I sent to one Erhard Seiler of Max Planck Institute, and a recent email message to Marc Fasnacht, so that you can learn somewhat the state of my analysis as of those statements of mine.
My analysis is developing as always with any of my work.
I note here that the paragraph of the wikipedia article that you quote from, and you omitted an important part, which paragraph is tilted "Detection by particle track-etch technique, contains no reference to any book or physics journal article or articles. Your give a reference to a 1975 book by Fleischer, Price and Walker on "Nuclear tracks in solids: Principles and applications." I have ordered the book from a German library. It will be a week before I get it. But I have checked the physics journals of the American Physical Society, and there are no articles by any of those authors, nor any article about the use of such a technique to detect cosmic rays, except one, Phys. Rev. D, 48, page 1949 (year 1993). A "D" series of Physical Review Journal. I am being sent it today. That article is authored by a number of Japanese.
So, I ask you, please find, if there exists, the leading physics journal articles that might report on such measurements and analyses of the measurements or detections that might purport to prove the particles detected -- their nature and energies. If such articles exists, I suspect that they don't venture any conclusions about the origin of such particles and their energies.
As far as the Compton-Millikan controversy, I would be pleased if you would cite the physics journal article or articles which records the purported debate between Compton and Millikan. I recommend that your read Millikan's 1947 book, and his 1949 Present Status article in the Reviews of Modern Physics, cited in the emails attached, and then determine in your mind whether Compton, as you imply, disproved Millikan's Atom Annihilation hypothesis of the origin of cosmic rays, and then provide me with your conclusion and analysis for your conclusion.
PermalinkPermalink 2010-05-20 | 00:39
Comment from: Eric Penrose [Member] Email
Dr Webb
'.. you imply as my contentions the danger of the LHC have been disproved. '

let me be clear I am only having serious doubts concerning this particularly argument of yours, I have a question about nuclear fusion chain reaction risk, but I would see that and the argument of insufficient validation of high energy cosmic ray energies as to be seem pretty credible arguments of potential risk, but of course it is right to follow up on this question.

I hope you see my previous comment, where I explained that I had made some assumptions incorrectly in my first response. So now, I actually would expect to find that Millikan's argument of cosmic ray gamma rays striking cosmic dust, to be not excludable, that is if I understand this as Millikans '49 view correctly. I would like to see the book if I can obtain it on loan.

Concerning the question of detection of cosmic rays from space I did find this listing from the 'google scholar' facility, of a number of papers, by Fleischer et al. (Incl accessible book at beginning):
http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=author:fleischer+author:price+author:walker&hl=en&num=100
I assumed, though admittably it wasn't very clear, that this reference referred to detection outside the atmosphere of 'primary' cosmic rays.

Even assuming this to be valid, I could see though that Millikan could still be right, where the cosmic ray dust is struck near to the origin of the gamma cosmic ray source (wherever that may be) and the secondary product strikes the earth atmosphere.

If my understanding of later Millikan (as opposed to what I read from internet), is correct, then the Compton view wouldn't apply. At end of my 1st comment above is a Compton paper reference, but I don't now see the relevance.

My real question is to do with the annihilation question. Last Friday, I got some clarification about this, as I have had arrangements to about monthly meet a recent cern physicist in Manchester. According to him, experiments in the last 20 years have found annihilation doesn't occur from photons striking nuclei. This was upto about 100GeV. He also argued that in modern theory this couldn't occur at higher energies due to conservation of net baryon number. He said that for the same reason of net baryon number conservation, annihilation can only occur from matter antimatter collision and not from matter nuclei striking each other. So either later Millikan or lhc annihilation doesn't appear to be possibilities according to the modern particle physics picture, while micro black holes, or strangelets are accepted as potential possibilities.


Eric

PermalinkPermalink 2010-05-20 | 01:14
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