Outline of your Petitioner’s Proposed Mechanism of a Nuclear Catastrophe occurring by the operation of the LHC. [Draft, March 30, 2010]

All matter has a mass. For example, a cubic centimeter of water has a mass of one gram. By virtue of its mass an object resists acceleration, when a force is applied to it. By that force, as the weight of a massive object, the mass is measured, relative to a standard material object, by means of a weighing balance. All matter consists of atoms; and by well-established theory and classic experiments, the atom consists of a core, called the nucleus, wherein most of the mass of an atom resides, surrounded by a number of orbiting electrons. The radius of the orbits determine the size of an atom; though the radius of the nucleus is very much smaller – extremely so. The nucleus of an atom contains a number of particles, namely, protons and neutrons, except the abundant isotope of hydrogen, which contains one proton in its nucleus, and no neutrons. Each proton and electron has an electrical charge. The proton’s charge is equal in magnitude as the electron, but a positive charge as distinguish from the negative charge of the electron, such that the two suffer a mutual attraction force that binds the electrons of an atom to the nucleus of the atom. The Uranium atom contains, according to theory and experiment, 92 protons and 143 neutrons; the light atoms, as Carbon, for instance, contain the same number of neutrons as protons in their nuclei, or nearly so. Carbon has 6 protons and 6 neutrons.

Some materials are naturally radioactivity, that is, they emit radiation. The nucleus of a radium atom emits alpha rays, which are high speed, highly energetic particles consisting of the nuclei of helium atoms: helium having two protons and two neutrons in its nucleus. In units of energy called the electron volt, abbreviated eV, the alpha particles emitted by radium have 4.5 million eV. The symbol for a million eV is one MeV. When mixing the element Beryllium with Radium, the alpha rays from the radium react with the nuclei of the Beryllium and produce as reaction products carbon nuclei and neutrons – the neutrons appearing as a radiation emanating from the mixture, and are highly energetic (about 2.5 MeV), and highly penetrating through matter, since they carry no electric charge that would otherwise inhibit their travel through a medium of positive charges (protons of the nucleus) and negative electrical charges (the electrons of the atoms). It was discovered in the year 1939 that when irradiating Uranium by the neutrons of a radium-beryllium source, that is, by exposing the uranium to the neutron radiation from the radium-beryllium source, the neutrons react with the nuclei of the uranium atoms (upon their collision with the uranium nuclei) to cause some of the uranium nuclei to disintegrate (explode) with a release of enormous energy. The process is called nuclear fission. That fission reaction products consists of two atomic nuclei having roughly half of the mass of the uranium atom and a number of neutrons (about 2.5 neutrons), which, like the reaction of alpha rays with beryllium, are also highly energetic, having an average energy of 2 MeV, and of course, highly penetrating in materials. The energy released by the uranium fission is about 200 MeV. The total number of protons and neutrons is conserved, however, in the fission reaction, that is, the total number of protons and neutrons of the fission products equals that of the Uranium nucleus plus the neutron that hit the caused the fission reaction. For a comparison, the burning of hydrogen gas in air (hydrogen reacting with the oxygen in the air) releases about 2.5 eV energy, hence, about one hundred million times less than the energy release from nuclear fission. So, one can understand the power of atomic bombs, and the energy potential of nuclear fuel in a nuclear power reactor.

The emission of a number of neutrons from the uranium nucleus in a fission reaction with an incident neutron gives rise to the phenomenon of a atomic fission chain reaction, whereby the released neutrons, in principle, can react with other uranium nuclei in a mass of uranium to produce additional fission reactions, which in turn emit more neutrons, and hence by them still more fission reactions – a chain of reactions. To illustrate, one initial neutron from a neutron source, by inducing a fission reaction with a uranium nucleus, produces say 3 neutrons (actually about 2.5 on the average). Those three neutrons can then induce three fission reactions, to produce 9 neutrons (3 for each of the three fission reactions), and those 9 neutrons in turn can produce 9 fission reactions, resulting in the third generate 27 neutrons; thus, a multiplying fission chain reaction. The average distance a fast neutron travels through a mass of solid uranium before colliding with a uranium nucleus is about 2.9 centimeters; which mean free path length is due to the size of the uranium nucleus, though small, there are a great many uranium atom in a cubic centimeter volume of the materials. The velocity of the neutrons emitted by the nuclear fission is about 2×109cm/sec, which is about 6.5% of the speed of light – very fast. Thus, the time between the emission of a neutron by fission and its collision, hence reaction, with a uranium nucleus in the vicinity, is the quotient of the mean free path length divided by the velocity, which figures to be 2.3 cm/(2×109 cm/sec)=1.5×10-9sec, or 0.0015 millionths of a second – which is extremely fast. Thus, a multiplying fission chain reaction in a mass of uranium can be extremely rapid, which explains an atomic bomb explosion; as the neutrons can multiply extremely rapidly and produce such an enormous quantity of neutrons, and consequently, an enormous number of nuclear fission reactions, with their releases of nuclear energy. The Hiroshima atomic explosion released about 13,00 tons of TNT (dynamite) equivalent energy. Also, only about 1.5% of the uranium atoms underwent nuclear fission. This is because not all of the neutrons released by a fission reaction induce a fission reaction, since a large fraction escape the uranium mass of the bomb device, mostly those near the periphery of the mass. During the early phase of an atomic explosion the uranium (of the Hiroshima bomb) explodes apart, thereby promoting the “leakage” of neutrons, so as to reduce the fraction of neutrons that can react with the uranium below the value required for sustaining the multiplying chain reaction, with the result that the explosion terminate the chain reaction before much of the uranium is consumed by fission reactions.

Actually, Uranium consists of two kinds: U-235 and U-238. The 238 type has three more neutrons in its nucleus. It happens that the U-235 “isotope” of Uranium has a much greater propensity for undergoing a fission reaction with neutrons than the U-238. The U-238 can suffer a fission reaction, but the neutron which induces the reactor must have about 1 MeV energy or more for the reaction to occur. The U-235 isotope has not that limitation. Since a large fraction of the neutrons emitted in a nuclear fission reaction have energy less than the 1 MeV threshold for U-238 fission, the U-238 alone cannot sustain a fission chain reaction. So, the Hiroshima bomb, for instance, contained a highly enriched U-235 form of Uranium, produced by elaborate systems for separating the UJ-235 from the U-238. The threshold phenomenon for a fission chain reaction by U-238 is important for the present analysis of a possible mechanism for a catastrophic nuclear reaction associated with the LHC proton-proton collision experiments.

Of critical importance for the present analysis is the fact the sum of the masses of the fission reaction products of U-235 is less than the sum of the mass of the U-235 atom and the neutron that induced its fission. The difference is about 0.0009 times the mass of the U-235 atom. Thus, by the fission reaction, a quantity of mass of matter vanishes. It is explained by the amount of energy released, according to the Einstein’s theory of relativity, E=mc2, which asserts that associated or inherent in a quantity of mass, m, is a corresponding amount of energy, E, and that indeed, mass is energy, by that theory. Thus by the release of energy, a quantity of mass was released – the mass being the energy.

To illustrate, the mass of a proton is 1.67×10-24gram, and that of the neutron nearly the same. So, since the U-235 nucleus has approximately the mass of 235 protons, then the energy of the 0.0009 fraction of the U-235 mass converts by Einstein’s equation to:
0.0009×235×1.67×10-24×(3×1010)2=3.18×10-4erg
=3.18×10-4erg/(1.6×10-6erg/MeV)=198MeV
(This calculation uses the conversion factor of 1.67×10-12erg. ) This explains the approximately 200 MeV of energy released by the fission reaction. Thus the mass held in the nucleus of any atom is a store of potential energy.

Now consider that the LHC machine accelerates protons. The source of the protons is a bottle of hydrogen gas. The nuclei of the hydrogen provides the protons, since the nucleus of each hydrogen atom consists of a single proton. (A small fraction of ordinary hydrogen consists of the isotope known as deuterium, which consists of one proton and one neutron in its nucleus; but, of course, it is removed from the ordinary hydrogen in the LHC operation, by a suitable preparation.) So, the mass of each proton that is used in the LHC, but before they are accelerated, is 24 1.67×10-24; × gram. CERN has declared that the “nominal” energy of the protons after they are accelerated will be, if operated as designed, 7 TeV, that is,7×1012eV=7&times+06MeV. By Einstein’s theory of Relativity, this means that the protons at the LHC operating energy will be about 7460 times the normal mass of a proton! The normal mass being the mass of the protons of the hydrogen in a glass of water, for instance). This fact is due to another equation of the theory of relativity – one which relates the energy of a particle of mass with its momentum, p, as follows:
E2=p2c2m02c4
where the momentum, p, is defined as p=mv, where m0 is the mass of the particle in its state of motion, v is the velocity of its motion, and m0 is the mass of the particle when it is as rest, hence, m0=1.67×10-24gram, which is practically the same as the mass of the protons for the LHC before they are accelerated.1 CERN gives the “nominal” energy of the accelerated protons as 7.0 TeV, or in units of eV, 7×1012 eV. This value can be compared to the rest mass energy,
m0c2=1.67×10-24gm ×(3×1010)2=1.5×10-3erg
   =1.5×10-3erg /(1.6×10-12erg/eV)=9.38×108eV
As is seen, the rest mass energy is greatly less than E, the stated nominal proton energy, thus we write E>>m0c2, that is, E is much, much greater than the rest mass energy. The square of the energy is

______________________________
1 The proof of this formula is fairly simple. By Newton’s law, the force exerted on a material object, F, is defined as the rate of change of its momentum, mv, that is, F=dp/dt=d/dt(mv). The change in energy of the object, denoted as dE is defined as the product of the force times the distance over which the force is exerted, dx. So, dE=F×dx=dp/dt×dx. The differentials can be rearranged, each being a quantity, so that dE=dp×dx/dt. In this form, the factor dx/dt is the velocity of the particle, the distance traveled in dt time. So then, dE=v·dp. Now multiply before sides of the equation by the mass m and recalling the p=mv, we obtain mdE=pdp. From Einstein’s mass-energy equation E=mc2, were c is the velocity of light, 3x1010cm/sec, and by substitution, we obtain EdE=c2pdp. This simple differential equation can then be integrated. The result is E2-E02=p2c2, where , the energy before the acceleration, since p=0 at the start of the acceleration, that is, at zero velocity. The result then is E2=p2c2+m02c4. Q.E.D.

even more so, by the square of the ratio. Therefore virtually all of the energy is given by the product pc. We may equate then as an accurate approximation, E=mc2=pc=mvc. The mass may be divided out of the equation, as well as one of the c factors, leaving v=c practically. Therefore, protons will be traveling virtually at the speed of light. The mass then is m=E/c2, and its ratio with the rest mass is 7×1012 eV/(9.38×108 eV)=7460.

Now the question is to be asked, and the question put to the theoretical physicists of the Fermi Laboratory yesterday, is from whence does the accelerated proton obtain its additional mass. The 7460-fold greater mass than the original rest mass of the proton, must be assumed to be real; for that mass is explains the radius of the LHC rings, of about 8.5 km. The dipole magnets of the LHC machine “bend” the travel line of the protons to follow a circular arc through each of those magnets, and the radius of curvature of the circular is proportional to the momentum of each proton, according to the electromagnetic theory of the effect of the magnet. By that theory the magnetic force acting of an electrically charged particle moving in a magnetic field of intensity B, is:
Fmagnetic=Bqv
where q is the electric charge in emu units, 1.6×10-20 emu, and v is the particle velocity. The force required to constrain the particle, as a proton, to move in a circular arc of radius of curvature R , called the centripetal force, is:
Fcentrepital=mv2/R
Equating the two forces, since the magnetic force supplies the required force, and canceling one of the velocity v factors, we obtain,
BqR=mv=p
Now, CERN gives the value of the magnetic field intensity for the dipole magnets as “8.33 T”, where the “T” denotes the Tesla unit, which is 104 gauss units, which are necessary for expressing the momentum in terms of gram times the velocity in cm/sec units, and R in centimeter units, but q in emu units of electrical charge. CERN also gives the “bending radius” effected by the dipoles, at 2804 meters. (Table 7.5 of Chapter 17 of the LHC Design Report.) By this equation the momentum can be inferred, and from the equation E=pc, the energy can be deduced. The calculation is as follows:
p=BqR=8.33×104x1.6x10-20 2804 m ×100 cm/m   =3.74×10-10 gm-cm/sec
To get the energy the momentum is to be multiplied by the velocity of light, as before shown, E=pc; so
E=pc=3.74×10-10×3.0×1010/(1.6×10-12 erg/eV)   =7.00×1012 eV
This is precisely the nominal energy for the LHC protons, according to the CERN declarations. Thus, the mass of the proton is really 7460 times the rest mass.

Therefore, the question arises, and the question which was put to two theoretical physicists of the Fermi Laboratory yesterday, is from whence does the accelerated proton obtain its additional mass. I asked, does the protons received particles of mass during the acceleration process, as by a series of kicks from the RF (radio frequency generators) fields of the accelerator fields? Are those particles the strange particles called mesons said to be observed among the cosmic rays, and according to quantum field theory are quanta of energy, or particles, that hold the protons and neutrons together in an atomic nucleus, or electromagnetic photons? And on what structures or entities in the proton receive and carry those particles or that great additional mass added to the proton during its acceleration, according to the theory of high energy physics? Evidently, by the operation of the LHC so-far, and by the Tevatron, one the protons are accelerated in those machines, the protons remain stable, despite possessing an amount of mass that is 7460 times the rest mass for the LHC, or about 1000 times for the Tevatron; for it is stated by CERN and the Fermi Laboratory that the protons circulate in the machine indefinitely, though the LHC, the circulation period is about 85 microseconds; but the protons circulate indefinitely. The modern quantum field theory of the “high energy physics” holds that the proton has a structure, consisting in part of smaller particles quarks. However, it is not necessary to learn that theory in order to assess the hazards of the LHC experiments. For it may be fairly assumed that there are entities in the protons that hold the mass together, and the same assumption for the nucleus of any atom, whether it be hydrogen, carbon, iron, radium, beryllium, or Uranium-235. To be sure, there must be large forces that bind the protons and neutrons together, since the electrical repulsion forces of the positive electrical charges of the protons would otherwise force the particles apart and disperse them. So, the nuclear forces must be inward, more or less toward the center of the nucleus. It is well-established theory of atomic physics that the energy of the electrons of an atom in their orbits about the nucleus of the atom can be raised by their absorbing a quantum (a unit) of electromagnetic energy, hence a mass of a photon, so that their radius of orbit is greater – further from the nucleus. The atomic theory has it that the electrons in such an “excited” energy state can “fall” back down closer to the nucleus, to a more stable level, and emit in the process photo of energy. So, it must assumed that a similar process occurs in a fission reaction of a Uranium nucleus: that when it is hit by a neutron, it is thrown into an excited state, where then it is unstable – the internal supports for the mass of the nucleus in that state, with now an extra neutron, perhaps, having been disturbed, or pushed aside; so the uranium nucleus collapses, and the mass then, being energy, propels itself out of the original confines of the nucleus – that is, the uranium nucleus breaks up into fragments, as actually occurs, according to well-established basic nuclear physics principles and a great amount of confirmatory experiments.

Also, there are numerous nuclear reactions which are induced by irradiating materials with energetic neutrons. Many such reactions require a certain minimum neutron energy to induce an atomic nucleus to disintegrate and form other species of atomic nuclei. Such a minimum energy is called the threshold for the reaction. These nuclear reactions usually result in the emission of one or more neutrons, protons, or alpha particles.

This takes us now to consider the rest mass of an atomic nucleus – the mass that ordinarily is held in the nuclei of the atoms of our Earthly materials that are all around us. We ought not assume that the Earthly atoms are perfectly stable. We now know that they are not. The alpha rays from radium when incident on beryllium induces the beryllium nuclei and alpha particle (helium nucleus) to collapse together (combine) but not with releasing a neutron and about 5.7 million eV of energy. The uranium nuclei exposed to neutrons disintegrate. Before the 1930s, the neutron was not known by the physicists of that time. But by experimenting with the alpha rays, as by mixing radium and beryllium, neutrons were discovered – that is, by the physicists doing things which they did not do before, that is, by experimenting (venturing) in the unknown. The neutron, a very strange particle at the time, was subsequently observed to induce nuclear fission reactions with uranium, and later with other heavy atoms, even Bismuth.

So, the possibility suggests itself that by CERN experimenting with the unknown, might produce by the investment of an enormous quantity of extraneous mass, however actually constructed into the protons, and then colliding those particles, might produce some strange energetic radical particles, analogous to the neutrons, that would fly off and interact with the nuclei of atoms in the materials around the collision zone of the machine, and disturb the structure that supports the rest mass of those nuclei, and thereby induce the collapse of those atomic nuclei. Such radical particles might originate from a part of the normal atomic nuclei, but be transformed by a high energy shock, to make them dangerous to other atomic nuclei. The collapse of the nuclei, involving a great potential energy normally bound up as the rest mass, could emit more such radical particles, so as to start a multiplying chain reaction. For such as been observed with man-made devices – the atomic bomb explosions, for instance. Chain reactions are rather common in nature. For example, the explosion of a flammable gas. I have read in treatises on physical chemistry that the explosion of a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen gases proceeds by a radical chain reaction. The formation of polymers occurs by radical chain reactions. The growth of a human body, starting with its first cell, is a chain reaction. The infection of a living cells and organism by a virus is a chain reaction, whereby the virus induces the nucleus of a living cell to produce copies of the virus, which are then sent them out to infect other cells, &c. We can consider ourselves fortunate that U-235 is not so abundant in nature. If it were, like veins of gold, and formed in a blocks, two blocks suddenly thrown together would produce a Hiroshima size nuclear explosion, initiated by a single stray neutron from the sun. I worry that such a device could ignite the Earth’s atmosphere in a nuclear fusion chain reaction, as before mentioned.

According to the theory of the emission of beta rays from radioactive substances, which are reported to be highly energetic electrons emitted by an unstable atomic nucleus, the emission is accompanied by the emission of very “tiny” particles called the neutrino, which like the neutron, hold no electric charge, but is much smaller than the neutron, and somehow has the property of very rarely interacting with other atomic nuclei in the medium through which they pass. Well, could such tiny particles be associated with the things within the atomic nucleus that hold the mass of the nucleus, whether the nucleus is in motion or at rest?

There is an enormous amount of energy that comprises the “rest” mass of the atomic nuclei of the material all around us – the material of the Earth. The carbon nucleus holds a potential energy by virtue of its rest mass that is 56.3 times the energy release of U-235 fission, Aluminum, 27 times.

Therefore, there is a real danger of a catastrophe involved in the operation of the LHC, but venturing into the unknown by running up the collision energy of the machine. Radical particles could, for all we know, be produced and initiate a multiplying chain reaction of collapsing atomic nuclear in the machine and the surrounding Earth’s materials. The same danger is involved in a LHC proton beam dump into carbon. Could the reactions produce the dread radical particles as before postulated? The energy of the protons is 7,000 billion electron volts, which is about a thousand times more energetic that the average cosmic ray proton energy of 5 billion eV. In this respect it must be considered, as discussed earlier in this letter, that the accelerated protons of the LHC cannot be assumed to be the same cosmic ray particles that enter the Earth, for the LHC protons will be accelerated differently, that is for sure. So, the structure of the protons of the LHC will not be known, and cannot be assumed to be that of cosmic ray protons, even if there are cosmic protons having energies of 7,000 billion eV.

Finally, the phenomenon of the threshold must be considered. The following graph, taken from the book Nuclear Physics, by Kaplan, shows a prime and very important example. The graph exhibits the propensity of a fission reaction with U-238, and other isotopes of Uranium, in terms of a quantity called the “fission cross-section.” Essentially, the rate of fission reactions in a nuclear reactor is proportional to the “fission cross-section. (I refer elsewhere in this letter for the explanation of the term.) Natural Uranium consists of 99.3% U-238, and the rest, 0.7% of U-235. The other isotopes are produced in nuclear reactors. The horizontal graph is the energy of the neutron in the experiments for measuring the fission cross-sections. The graphs show that for U-238 there is no fission reaction for neutron energies below the threshold of about 0.5 million eV (MeV). The average energy of the neutrons released by fission reactions is about 2.0 MeV. Also noteworthy is the fact that the width of the threshold is about 1.0 MeV; thus, a an increase in the energy by one MeV can make the fission reaction in the U-238 in full effect; so that if a neutron energy of, say, 1.5 MeV would not support a fission chain reaction, a 2.0 MeV neutrons might, if other properties of the U-238 would favor a chain reaction potentiality.
The fission cross sections of several uranium isotopes in the Mev region

This fact, and there are many other facts of thresholds of nuclear reactions, is important for considering that the proton-antiproton collision experiments of the Tevatron might have come close to producing the postulated dreaded radical particles, but due to a threshold for a production of such particles, such were not produced, to our good fortune. This principle can also be applied to the case of the LHC. For if the LHC proton-proton collisions are in fact carried out at the 3.5 TeV proton energy, as CERN has been announced to be their intention, and without any sign of a dangerous reaction, or worse, then such a result would not guarantee the impossibility of the dreaded catastrophic when running up the proton energy to 7.0 TeV, which is the purpose of the LHC, due to the threshold possibility. Indeed, if the width of the threshold were only 1MeV, like the U-238, then there would be no sign whatsoever of any dangerous particle production, until it is too late.

I conclude by mentioned that one of the theoretical high-energy particle physicist at the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory with whom I conferred responded to the proposed mechanism for a catastrophic nuclear chain reaction by saying that it is “an interesting question.” I ought to mention that fact. He also admitted, after a discussion of the mechanism, that there is some element of the unknown in the experiments of the LHC, because of the unprecedented proton energy at which it is to be operated; and so, he said, he has relied on the reported measurements of the cosmic ray proton energies, and assumes therefore, that cosmic ray protons hit the Earth regularly at energies greater than the equivalent LHC cosmic proton hypothetical of 1017 eV. He admitted, though, upon my questioning of that reliance, that he himself did not make the measurements which have been reported as inferences of the cosmic ray proton energies. The other physicist broke off the discussion that I sought to have, after I asked about the physicists’ understanding of how the protons acquire mass in the progress of their acceleration in either the Tevatron or the LHC, and so before I could propose to him the subject mechanism for a nuclear catastrophe. So, there is a reluctance among some of the high energy physicists to discuss these questions. I mention these discussion not for the purpose of embarrassing the physicists who received my phone calls, but because the facts are important, since it is virtually impossible to obtain a scientific and government investigation of the nuclear hazards. I hope with this letter, the Swiss Confederation Government will do so. I add that I participated in a British Court of Inquiry in 1988-1989 that was held to inquire into the safety and hazards of building additional nuclear power reactors in Britain of the pressurized water reactor type. It was very commendable court investigation, consisting of several judges representing very disciplines, biology, economics, mechanical engineering, and the chief judge, a Queens Counsel, Mr. Michael Barns. I recommend the model to your Government.
http://www.achtphasen.net/Webb/LHC-FederalCounsel-LetterPetition/Atom_Nucleus_collapse3.pdf

2010-06-08 | achtphasen | 09:13:57 | Email | 3 comments




 

Comment from: achtphasen [Member] Email
Dr. Webb's outline of proposed danger at LHC is a most important document these days and i feel honoured that he granted me the right to publish.

It took me some hours to reformulate the formulae in html. I obviously should learn to write in LaTeX, but as i am not really able to write in LaTex, but consider Dr. Webb's work as most important to stop endangering my country (and our planet) by continuated LHC-operations by publically remembering my government, the Federal Counsel of Switzerland, to act accountable, i spent some hours (on several days) reformulating Dr. Webb's formulae in html.

If there should be errors in the html-version of Dr. Webb's Outline of Proposed Mechanism of a Nuclear Catastrophe occurring by the operation of the LHC, please excuse and inform me upon, as those errors are my own fault and in no way Dr. Webb's.
Of course i will correct all eventual errors in the html-version as soon as possible.

I hope there are only marginal errors, but i do not have the time to go through all formulae again right now.

Dr. Webb's original .pdf-document is downloadable here: http://www.achtphasen.net/Webb/LHC-FederalCounsel-LetterPetition/Atom_Nucleus_collapse3.pdf and this document is a part of Dr. Webb's letter-petition he sent March 30th, 2010, as Draft to F.C. Mrs Micheline Calmy Rey.

You may download the whole of Dr. Webb's letter-petition to F.C. Mrs. Micheline Calmy Rey as word-document here: http://www.achtphasen.net/Webb/LHC-FederalCounsel-LetterPetition/March_30__3rd-Draft_6.doc
Eventually, we will soon be able to provide a better readable .pdf-version of this important document.

Marc Fasnacht


PermalinkPermalink 2010-06-08 | 09:53
Comment from: ralfkannenberg [Visitor]
zur Lektüre empfohlen: http://www.relativ-kritisch.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=43436#43436
PermalinkPermalink 2010-06-08 | 11:22
Comment from: Eric Penrose [Member] Email
Dr Webb

Though familiar with your argument here, I haven't yet had time to look at this significant looking latest version.

However, concerning CERN's response to this concern at end of p.2 of their MEMORANDUM:
'Interaction of the CERN Large Hadron Collider (LHC) Beam with the Beam Dump Block' http://lsag.web.cern.ch/lsag/BeamdumpInteraction.pdf , this below of their paper, appears to be incorrect:

'It is important to stress that, contrary to naive expectations, the basic features of hadron-nucleon interactions of 7 TeV protons with particles in a fixed target are well known. The corresponding centre-of-mass energy, 115 GeV, is in between the maximum energy, 63 GeV, of the Intercepting Storage Ring CERN collider (ISR), and the energy range, 200-360 GeV, explored by the CERN SPS collider.'

Having now checked with both this http://ab-dep-op-sps.web.cern.ch/ab-dep-op-sps/SPS_Presentation.htm and with pages 5-6 of http://arxiv.org/abs/nucl-th/0504028v5 , I now see the quoted response to yourself among the most neglectful lhc safety review errors I have found.

Notice that the link here mentions 'fixed target' and that while the moving SPS nucleon energies are given in attachment at upto 158GeV* the relevant c.o.m per nucleon energies here are much lower at 17GeV - well below CERN's 63GeV to 200-300GeV range in their response. Though proton antiproton head to head collisions were carried out at 630GeV (c.o.m.) or above from SPS, the type of collision here is not comparable, and the collision energy value is above the given range. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Proton_Synchrotron_experiments but much is given here for other than in terms of the correlated c.o.m. collision energy per nucleon).

I notice though that RHIC results are from 63GeV - 200GeV ; the likely error. But I have only found a very limited amount of evidence here, from some sideline preparatory research with RHIC proton - carbon (strip) collisions (from 1st article of http://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_q=carbon+proton+rhic&num=100&btnG=Search+Scholar&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_occt=title&as_sauthors=&as_publication=&as_ylo=2000&as_yhi=2010&as_sdt=1&as_subj=phy&as_sdts=5&hl=en&as_vis=1 )

with the rather sketchy and not very clear:
'For very small angle scattering, the elastic process dominates, and experimentally the elastic events are cleanly identified by measuring the recoil carbons for polar angles near 90
in the laboratory frame.'

RHIC energies are comparable also for deuteron -gold collisions but not any proton-gold collisions there. Also, for the deuteron -gold collisions I cannot so far see any directly relevant graphs from among
http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?as_q=deuteron+rhic+gold&num=10&btnG=Search+Scholar&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_occt=title&as_sauthors=&as_publication=&as_ylo=2000&as_yhi=2010&as_sdt=1&as_subj=phy&as_sdts=5&hl=en

concerning either transverse momentum or extent of forward motion for the mostly emitted protons.

I also notice that this memorandum of CERN's is inaccessible to the public from the cds server, though I was given the link a year ago at 'scientific concerns'.

*This I checked with 17GeV for available energy in my own calculation.

Eric
PermalinkPermalink 2010-06-09 | 18:39
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